West Marion County and I-465

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The first part of the new beltway (almost) around Indianapolis started on the westside of Marion County. As mentioned in other articles, the original plan was to start Interstate 465 at Interstate 65 on the northwest side, with the replacement for State Road 100 (which I-465 officially was) heading south from there to circle around the county from there. Interchanges were planned at I-65, I-74/US 136, 10th Street, US 36 (Rockville Road), US 40 (Washington Street), Weir Cook Municipal Airport (Airport Expressway), Interstate 70, and SR 67 (Kentucky Avenue). According to USGS topo maps, like that included below, show that there was a stub ramp connecting I-465 to 62nd Street, although the ramp connecting to 62nd Street was listed as still proposed six years later.

1962 USGS topographic map showing the original interchange connection Interstate 65 and Interstate 465.

Construction started along the corridor in 1959. The Indianapolis News ran a series of pictures showing the plans set out by the State Highway Department. If you noticed the list of interchanges above, there were no plans for 56th Street or 38th Street to have ways to access 465. Bridges were to be built over 465 at 56th, 46th, 38th, 34th, and 21st Streets. (21st Street was a very special, and contentious, situation. I covered it in the article: “Building I-465 at West 21st Street. [8 May 2020]”)

Indianapolis News, 14 December 1959, showing the Indiana State Highway Department’s plans for the new Interstate 465 (also still called State Road 100 at the time) at the northern terminus of the highway.

The plans for Interstate 65 at that point were to continue to have it replace US 52 (Lafayette Road). The US 52 bypass at Lebanon was made part of the new I-65. The temporary plan was to connect I-65 just southeast of I-465 directly to US 52 until construction could continue. Then I-65 would also be US 52 from that point to northwest of Lebanon. I mention this only because the loop around Indianapolis was, apparently, easier to get approved than trying to run I-65 through town. (And since it would take another 16 years to complete, even to the point that an addition was planned to I-465 and completed before I-65 through Marion County says it all.)

It wouldn’t take long after the original plans for the interstate were laid down that changes were made. The non-planned 38th Street interchange was added to the deal. It was to be a partial cloverleaf interchange connecting to 38th Street at that point. Marion County had decided to build 38th Street from Lafayette Road east to the new White River bridge to be built by the city. At that point in history, 38th Street was a county road with nothing resembling the connections it has today as a major west side thoroughfare.

Indianapolis News, 11 December 1959, showing the future connection to 38th Street from I-465. This ramp would be built much later, when 38th Street was finally connected as a thoroughfare across Marion County.

The next interchange south of the “gonna be built someday” 38th Street was the connection to another interstate highway, Interstate 74. The plans shown in the Indianapolis News differ slightly from what was actually built. US 136 (Crawfordsville Road) is directly connected to the east end of the proposed interstate connection. This would change. It looks like the proposed interchange was moved slightly north, and Crawfordsville Road west of High School Road was turned north to connect to High School Road. This would be where US 136 would ultimately officially end.

Indianapolis News, 10 December 1959, showing the proposed connection between interstates 74 and 465. The original plan, and this was carried out, is that Interstate 74 would “travel over,” ISHD/INDOT term for multiplex, with I-465 from northwest to southeast Marion County.
1953 Topo map showing the intersection of West 10th Street and High School Road.

The next section did change, at least at one interchange, quite a bit. But before I describe that, let’s talk about the placement of I-465 from Vermont Street north to about where 16th Street would be, if it continued to High School/Girls School Road. The new interstate was planned, in that section, to be built directly over High School Road. This is not really a stretch, since High School Road, from Washington Street south to the Airport, was the original State Road 100. And I-465 was, for all intents and purposes, State Road 100 according to ISHD.

I have written a detailed history of SR 100 (SR 100: How did it come to be? [9 March 2019]) and an article about how, at one point, the connection between SR 100 on BOTH sides of Marion County were to have cloverleaf interchanges (“The Cloverleaf Interchanges at US 40 and SR 100” [20 November 2019]). If SR 100 had been completed on the west side, like it was on the north and east sides, I have no doubt that it would have followed High School Road north, probably, ultimately, to 86th Street, which was SR 100 along the northwest side.

The change in interchanges happened at 10th Street. The original plan was for a full cloverleaf interchange at that intersection. This would have pushed the eastbound 10th Street to southbound 465 ramp back closer to Glen Arm Road, where High School Road was rerouted to miss the interchange. What was ultimately built was a jumbled three-quarter cloverleaf with a flyover from westbound 10th to southbound 465.

In the end, High School Road was basically built over by 465 from Vermont to 10th Streets. 10th Street is a survey correction line, so High School actually moves slightly to the east at that point, as shown in the topo map to the left. For more information about survey lines, check out “Survey Lines and County Roads. (29 March 2019)”

Indianapolis News, 9 December 1959, showing the Indiana State Highway Department plans for I-465 from just south of the New York Central railroad tracks to just north of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad tracks, including what was to originally be full cloverleaf interchanges at 10th Street and Rockville Road.
1953 USGS topo map of the area of Washington Street and High School Road. The area marked “Ben Davis” would be the location of the new cloverleaf interchange between US 40 and I-465.

From the looks of aerial photos in 1959 as shown in the Indianapolis News, the interchange at Washington Street was going to be very destructive. (Keep in mind that as of the writing of this article, MapIndy, my go to source for historic aerial photos of Marion County no longer offers that service. Maps are available, but the aerial photos are gone.) In addition to the shunting of Morris Street (a survey line and historic route of its own accord), most of where the interchange between US 40 and I-465 was basically what had been the town of Ben Davis.

Another thing would have to happen before this interchange would be built. It was determined, and reported, in July 1959 that an improvement of West Washington Street would have to occur before the interstate reached that point. US 40 was to be widened in the area. The work on Washington Street, however, would have to wait until sewer work in the area was completed…probably in 1961. Plans to widen Washington Street from 40 feet to 68 feet wide, with a four foot median and an eight parking lane on each side, were decided upon. Very little of that plan exists today…and if it does, it’s hard to find.

Indianapolis News, 8 December 1959, showing the proposed area of US 40 and Interstate 465.

The last area covered by the Indianapolis News in the series of articles (actually, it was the first since the editor staff decided to post them south to north, even though the interstate was built north to south!) shows the area of I-465 near Weir Cook Municipal Airport. The one change that I can see is what would become Airport Expressway (check out “Indianapolis’ Raymond Street Expressway” [4 February 2020] for the history of what started out as the Bradbury Expressway) was proposed to connect to the airport heading slightly north of due west, just above Southern Avenue. This section of the (now) Sam Jones Expressway is due east-west at the point it connects to Interstate 465. For a history of what is now Indianapolis International Airport, check out “Indianapolis Municipal Airport.” (20 August 2019)

Indianapolis News, 7 December 1959. This newspaper snippet shows the area of proposed I-465 near the (then) Weir Cook Municipal Airport (now Indianapolis International).

That covers the first of the construction of the State Road 100 replacement. I want to share this one last snippet from the Indianapolis News of 19 October 1960. It shows the construction of I-465/I-65/US 52 at 62nd Street…or the original northern end of Interstate 465.

Indianapolis News, 19 October 1960, showing the original northern end of Interstate 465.

1959 – Interstate Contract Bids

When the interstate system started being built in Indiana in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s, contracts for building those roads started flying fast and furious. The interstate system came into being in 1956…and the first contracts were finally let in 1959. The Indianapolis News of 29 May 1959 reported all of the contracts that were let to that point.

First four miles of Interstate 465: “Low bid for construction of the first 4 miles of Interstate 465, the new belt highway to encircle Indianapolis, has been submitted by an Evanston (Ill.) firm. The construction contract also will include the building of 1 1/3 miles of Interstate 65 – the Indianapolis-to-Chicago expressway – northwest of Indianapolis.”

One of the things that keeps coming up when it comes to the interstates, their designations and their contracts is the actual name for I-465. Legally, that’s what it was, Interstate 465. However, for many years, until the interstate was done, or even beyond, the news media would not only refer to it as Interstate 465, but as the New State Road 100. A lot of people at the time simply saw it as a replacement for SR 100, which it was. This was also brought on by the fact that the original contracts from the state had project numbers for both roads.

This contract covered I-465 from a point north of US 136 to West 62nd Street. It would run west of High School Road through the area. The section of Interstate 65 included in this contract would run “parallel with and west of U.S. 52, from just northwest of West 65th to just southeast of High School Road.” The bid for this contract was $2,257,679.81.

The same company won the $1,705,758.49 bid to construct Interstate 74 from SR 267 in Brownsburg to just east of the Hendricks-Marion County Line. This 4.5 mile section of what the News referred to as the “Indianapolis to central Illinois expressway” would be built north of US 136.

As is typical of the way Indiana bids contracts for road projects, bridges and roads are bid separately. The above contracts did not allow for bridges…just the approaches. Bridges would be bid usually earlier than the road.

The first new Ohio River bridge linking Indiana and Kentucky in 30 years was let on a bid of $994,979.58 to Roy Ryan & Sons of Evansville. “The bridge will be double-decked, with three lanes of one way traffic on one level and three lanes of one way traffic on the other level.”

Three bridges were let on the Interstate 74 project mentioned above. Ruckman & Hansen, Inc., of Fort Wayne, won two of them. $187,129 for the bridge over Big White Lick Creek west of SR 267, and $219,553 for the bridge over SR 267. Carl M. Geupel Construction Company bid $218,712 to build a county road bridge over Interstate 74, 1.2 miles southeast of SR 267.

These were among the first contracts to be let on the new Interstate highway system in Indiana. Many more would come.

Planning and Building I-65 in Southeast Jackson County

When the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 was made the law of the land, states throughout the United States started looking at how to cash in on the new superhighway plan. Rough routes had already been laid out. It was up to the states, more or less, to nail it down even more. While there were already sections of road that were going to be added to the new interstate system, I want to focus on one of the built from scratch sections that was planned. This section was so quick to be added to the highway system that it was announced in the Seymour Tribune on 14 February 1958. It would connect US 50 east of Seymour to Uniontown.

“Early Construction May Put New Road Near Here In Use Before Rest Of New Highway.” That was what the sub-headline read in the Tribune that day. Engineer for the Seymour District of the Indiana State Highway Commission, E. C. Willis, announced on that Valentines Day 1958 that the new superhighway, not mentioned by number in the article, was on the 1958 State construction plans.

According to the information put out by the ISHC, interchanges were to be built at US 50, just west of the then current US 31, and at SR 250, east of Uniontown. “This will permit the new stretch of the superhighway to be used between those two points before the remainder of the new limited access highway is completed.” The new highway would run roughly parallel to US 31, the major highway through the area.

“Survey parties of the state highway department still are working on staking the right of way for the proposed new road and one of them is now engaged between U. S. 50 and Kriete’s curve southeast of Seymour. Due to the deeply frozen condition of the ground from the recent continued near-zero temperatures, the survey party is encountering difficulties but is continuing its work with interruption for the extreme cold in order that the project can be rushed under this year’s schedule.”

The article goes on to state that right of way purchase at the Jeffersonville end of the new road had already begun.

Google Maps image of the area known as the Kriete Curve.

“The programming of the Uniontown-U.S. 50 stretch in the 1958 highway plans will permit the early construction of that section of the new road, which will include the utilization of the three sets of new dual-lane bridges south of the present Kriete curve, which have been under construction for some time and are about ready for use when a road is built to them.” I would assume from that statement that the state had already planned to move US 31 southeast of Seymour, and that bridges were already built pending completion of the road. With the creation of the interstate system, those bridges could be easily moved to the replacement highway, to be called Interstate 65. It is also safe to assume that the bridges in question crossed the Muscatatuck River, as shown in the Google Maps image.

The section of Interstate 65 in question was shown as under construction on the 1959 Indiana Official State Highway Map. It was shown as complete to a point north of SR 256 near Austin on the 1960 version of the same map. The same 1960 map shows completion of I-65 north from Jeffersonville to Underwood, with the section between Underwood and Austin under construction.

The Building of I-465

The building of the Indianapolis bypass, Interstate 465, involved a lot of pieces to fall together. Property acquisition was a big part of that. Then came the money involved in building the interstate in the first place.

The Indianapolis News, on 14 December 1959, published the above photograph showing the first section of Interstate 465 to be built. It was already under construction when the article was published. Two contracts, on for the 46th Street overpass ($149,968.03) and the 56th Street overpass ($168,178.51) had already been signed. It is mentioned in the caption that “design work hasn’t been completed on the Interstate 64-465 cloverleaf interchange, although a $582,836.95 bid has been received for part of the work.” One wonders where that cloverleaf might have been.

Even before that, it was announced in the Indianapolis News of 30 April 1959 that the contract had been let for the grade separation (bridge) for 34th Street over the new interstate. What is of particular note is the line “over west leg of new Ind. 100, to be renumbered Interstate 465.”

Late 1962 would be the planned bidding date for a contract to build a new interchange in the already completed northwest leg of I-465. At the time, 38th Street was being extended and improved across northwestern Marion County. It was decided by the Highway Commission to create a diamond interchange where 38th Street crossed over I-465. At the time, there were no interchanges on the northwest side between I-74/US 136 and I-65.

Indianapolis News, 08 August 1962, showing progress on I-465 construction through Beech Grove.

The end of November, 1962, saw the announcement of a $3,197,216.11 contract to build the interstate from Meridian Street to Carson Avenue on the south side of Marion County. This contract was let on the same day they were opened. This was to allow for quicker construction of the bypass. Also, this was to give the contractor as much time as possible to complete construction before the deadline on December 1963. The 2.3 miles of new road and five bridges involved in this section of interstate would bring the highway to almost the pending interchange at I-65.

Another contract had to be let in this section when it was realized that the banks of Lick Creek, with the interstate built on both sides near Carson Avenue, had to be reinforced. To the tune of $298,014.40. The creek, as of 21 April 1964, had eroded its bank the previous winter requiring the building of additional slope walls and revetments to keep the creek where it belonged between the two directions of I-465.

In 1963, a contract bid to build the large interchange on the south side of Marion County between I-65 and I-465 was one of the bigger contracts. The project involved eight bridges and two miles of pavement to connect two of the sections that were already under construction or completed. The low bid on that particular contract was $3,507,672.18 by McMahan Construction Company of Rochester and R. L. Schutt Construction Company of Indianapolis. This bid was announced publicly on 20 April 1963.

Indianapolis News, 24 July 1967, showing the construction progress of the 56th Street bridge over (future) I-465.

The first contract to be opened up after the Fall 1964 completion of I-465 between I-74 and SR 100 (Shadeland Avenue) was the bidding, starting 25 May 1965, of a single bridge over US 52 (Brookville Road) and the Baltimore & Ohio railroad tracks on the southeast side of the county. This contract, and the rest of them connecting I-74 to US 40 on the east side had been on hold due to right-of-way difficulties. Norman F. Schafer, executive director of the State Highway Commission, commented that the summer of 1965 would be the first time in more than four years that no major construction was underway on the beltway.

Indianapolis News, 24 August 1967. Construction underway on the north leg…and a proposed SR 100 connecting the west leg at I-65 to the north leg west of Zionsville Road. This section would be built as SR 100, but like the rest of the route, would become part of I-465, causing confusion for over two decades with the “dog leg.”

The north and northeast legs of I-465 would be the hardest to complete. So much so that in July 1968, the Noblesville Ledger ran photos of the construction of the interstate through the small section of Hamilton County through which it passes. It is mentioned that the “State Highway Department schedules call for ‘phasing out’ I-465 construction from it western link with I-65 east to White River by the first winter freeze. However, I-164 from just north of Fall Creek northwest to White River will not start this year.” I would share the photos from that newspaper, but they are very dark and hard to see.

Indianapolis News, 17 March 1960. Proposed new route for the north leg of I-465 through Boone and Hamilton Counties.

I would be remiss if I didn’t mention one “might have been” on this entry. I found this map of another proposal for the north leg of the bypass. On 30 Janaury 2020, I wrote “Alternate Routes for I-465 on North Side of Indianapolis,” but didn’t find this map. I thought it appropriate to share it here.

The Crawfordsville Pike, and Its Change in Marion County

Crawfordsville Road. In its history, it has been a state built county road, a toll road, an Auto Trail, a state road, a US Highway, and, ultimately, a connecting city street (in two towns). Most of the original route of the road in Marion County is still used for the (old) route from Indianapolis to Crawfordsville, which was the purpose. But there are three places where the road has changed in a major way. One close to downtown Indianapolis, one at White River, and one at Speedway.

When the Crawfordsville Road was established, it left Indianapolis along what is now Indiana Avenue. At the time, it was also the Lafayette Road. The road then followed Indiana Avenue to Fall Creek (where 10th Street is now). It then crossed Fall Creek in a straight line with Waterway Boulevard, not Indiana Avenue. Both the Crawfordsville and Lafayette Roads, on the same route, followed the north bank of White River to just north of where the 16th Street Bridge is now. The old bridge at what is now 16th Street, called the Emrichsville Bridge, started on the west bank of the river at the same place the 16th Street bridge does. The difference is that the Emrichsville Bridge crossed at a right angle to the river, making a shorter bridge that caused the road to be north of the present route.

The Crawfordsville and Lafayette Roads split at what is now Lafayette Road and 16th Street. Crawfordsville Road continued on what is now 16th Street to what is now Cunningham Road in Speedway. It then connected to what is currently Crawfordsville Road, and more-or-less followed that route through the rest of Marion County, with the small exception of the area at High School Road, I-465 and I-74. It was slightly rerouted there with the construction of I-74. Then, it was rerouted again, closer to the original path, when the I-74 entrance was removed. Also, the old road was just south of the current one west of I-465.

In 1914, the old Crawfordsville Road became part of the Dixie Highway. This would be part of the western leg, connecting Indianapolis to Chicago…but not directly. Indianapolis was the crossroads of both parts of the western leg. This would make the old road part of a highway that stretched all the way to Miami, Florida.

As is almost typical of the old “state roads” in Indiana, the old road had 1) been county responsibility beginning around the turn of the 20th century, and 2) been criss-crossed by a railroad that had been 20 years after the original construction of the road by the state. The railroad, in this case, was, starting in 1890, the Peoria & Eastern, a New York Central property (via the Big Four). In Marion County alone, the P&E, and the THI&E interurban route to Crawfordsville, crossed the old Crawfordsville Road twice in what is now Speedway.

When the State Highway Commission was (re)created in 1919 (it had been formed originally in 1917, but had legal questions that caused a new law to be passed in 1919), the Dixie Highway route was not brought into the new state road system. Even with the expansion of the system in 1923, the Crawfordsville Road would still not be state responsibility.

But 1923 was the year that the major reroute of the Speedway section would be proposed. The map below, as published in the Indianapolis News of 13 April 1923, shows the plan to move the route from 16th Street to a new build north of the Peoria & Eastern/THI&E Traction tracks. As mentioned, the new construction would “eliminate four dangerous railroad and interurban crossings and would straighten and shorten the road materially.”

In 1926, when the state road system was expanded and renumbered, the old road would be added to the new state road system, sort of. The official description, from the ISHC and published in the Indianapolis News of 28 September 1926, was listed as “State Road 34 – Indianapolis to the Illinois-Indiana state line at Beckwith, passing through Pittsboro, Lizton, Jamestown, New Ross, Crawfordsville, Waynetown, Hillsboro, Veedersburg and Covington. (From Crawfordsville west this now is known as State Road 33. Between Indianapolis and Crawfordsville the road has not yet been added to the state system but soon will be.)”

1941 aerial photograph, courtesy of MapIndy (City of Indianapolis website) of the Crawfordsville Road area in Speedway. The thicker white line from the lower right to the upper left is the post-1923 route. In the upper left just below that, is the old road, which ran just south of the new road. The old road then turns south-southeast to connect to what is now 16th Street.

Ultimately, when added to the state system, the new SR 34 would extend along 16th Street to Northwestern Avenue (now Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Street) where it would end at US 36 and SR 29. This would be the other reroute of the old road to connect to downtown. In 1951, SR 34 would be changed to US 136, ending at what had become US 421 at the same time.

As mentioned above, another change to the US 136 route would come with the construction of I-74 in 1959/1960. The road would be bent slightly northwest to connect to the new interstate, with an intersection allowing drivers to turn left onto US 136. The US 136 designation would be removed from this intersection to Northwestern Avenue in 1975. The last change would be when the connection to I-74 was moved from a direct route to a new entrance directly from US 136 (and then US 136 being truncated again, being removed from the section between the new ramp and High School Road). The old road was curved in such a way to create a more “straight through” traffic pattern on Crawfordsville Road.

The original route would also be rerouted near the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. A new roundabout was put in place at Crawfordsville Road, 16th Street and Main Street. Georgetown Road was removed from this connection. To connect to the old road from this point requires a short trip south on Main Street back to 16th Street, which was made discontinuous with the building of that roundabout.

1967: Kokomo Plans a Second and Third Bypass

US 31 has always been a rather important road in Indiana. So much so that before it was US 31, it was SR 1. This importance is shown by the fact that the original US 31 has been bypassed in several places throughout the state…and some of those are bypasses of bypasses.

An example is in Carmel. When the “new” US 31 was built along what is Meridian Street north of the Central Canal, it was, for a long time, a two lane road through Carmel. When the state decided to expand it to a four lane divided highway, the section that is now Old Meridian Street was bypassed for its current alignment.

But Kokomo was a different story. The US 31 bypass of that town opened in 1951. This moved the US 31 route from the city streets through downtown to a new alignment then east of the city. But for several years after construction, the new US 31 would be an alternate route. (The Vidette-Messenger of Porter County reported that the ribbon cutting on the Kokomo bypass was held in December 1959.) It wouldn’t take long until Kokomo moved out to the east to crowd the new bypass, making traffic overbearing on the new road.

How long, you ask? How about less than a year. There were already news stories at the end of 1951 stating that the new bypass was a traffic problem. But the State Highway Department decided to stand pat for a little while longer: almost two decades, sort of.

In the Kokomo Morning Times of 18 October 1967, it was announced that a NEW US 31 bypass was being planned…possibly. State and Howard County officials were contemplating several projects to make traffic smoother through the area. These projects involved US 31, US 35 and SR 19. It would take until the mid-2010s for two of these projects to come into full fruition. The SR 19 plan, which included extending that road from its end at US 35 north towards and into Peru, still has not happened. It is likely never to happen at this point.

Map of the planned highway program in Howard County, as published in the Kokomo Morning Times of 18 October 1967.

The two US route projects were to go hand-in-hand. The plan was to build a new northern bypass of Kokomo for US 35. At the time, US 35 still entered downtown Kokomo, along Markland Avenue. The road then turned north on Washington Street until it followed Davis Road to the northwest out of the city. The 1967 plan called for US 35 to break from Davis Road roughly where it does today, bypassing Kokomo on the north and east to a point between the then current US 31 bypass and SR 19. Unlike the now almost decade old US 31, this new road would be a limited access route, allowing better traffic flow.

But the other part of the plan would be even more ambitious. US 31 would bypass Kokomo on the west, in an area between Howard CR 300W and CR 400W. It would start leave the then current US 31 south of SR 26, connecting back to its mother road near the Howard-Miami County Line. It would then cross the new US 35 bypass north of Kokomo. This would have the effect of creating a three-quarter loop around the city of Kokomo. This new facility, like US 35, would become a limited access alignment. This was, again, unlike the US 31 bypass completed in 1959.

The projects in this plan were, according to the newspaper, “projected for work by the year 1982.” The bypasses were to be taken into consideration with the “still planned for a near-future construction program will be completion of dual-laning between Kokomo and Peru of U.S. 31.”

The Morning Times also mentions that the “current” US 31 bypass wasn’t working as planned by the State Highway Department. “The present bypass was built to gear traffic away from the congestion of the city’s center. But, planners were not far-sighted enough to implement limited access as part of the present bypass.”

The newspaper also added an editorial comment to the end of the article. “It may be ten years until active efforts materialize to spark construction of the new bypass and an expansion of Ind. 19, but planners have committed themselves in 1967 as favoring these projects for the future.”

As it turned out, this project never came into being. SR 19 still ends at US 35. The newspaper claims that “the Ind. 19 to Peru stretch would accomplish three things at once. It would link Ind. 19’s broken portions, it would provide a north-south route around Kokomo and on the east side, and it would provide an adequate access route toward the Misissinewa Reservoir.”

The northern bypass of Kokomo would be accomplished with the completion of the current US 31 bypass of the city, some 40+ years after the plan mentioned above was created. US 35 now connects, and multiplexes, with US 31 east of Kokomo, following the new route to almost the end of the newly constructed bypass. The new bypass is also controlled access, or interstate standard. In the end, a bypass of Kokomo on the north, east, and south sides was completed. And, even though it added a couple of miles to the route, it would cut the travel time from Indianapolis to South Bend by up to 30 minutes.